Margm

Gwen, I worried so about you and one other, I think Mary Beth. But honestly, I think everyone on the forum if they were honest, at one time or the other thought about their exit. Just the act of crying until you lose your breath and thinking it would be so easy not to breathe again. I knew life had to be horrible for Butch, all I could think was how will he survive. And, in the end, he didn't. I did not want him to hurt anymore, but I did not want his little family to hurt either.

I went three times to the meeting. I came away hurting worse than when I went in. I think some times we do not want to face the fact that our hurt makes us suicidal, but at our own risks, we get the idea that we do not care what happens to us. When asked by the doctor what did I want out of life my answer was the truth, "I don't care." Not suicidal, but if a car is approaching fast, I won't hurry to get out of the way. If I cannot catch my breath when I am crying, I will welcome the darkness. That is how I felt, and how I would imagine most felt. Then, I had a reason to live and my deepest concern is that I can help her until she feels safe to leave, because I do not ever want the trauma of her finding me lifeless. But, after that, my words "I don't care" seem to be all I care about. I don't want my family to have to pick up the pieces. I want to leave effortlessly, if I can. I don't want to leave a mess behind for them to try to clean up. We do not all get what we want. My mom would have been so terrified to hear that we have had to wait so long to pay her succession. She was always right on with being prepared. Alzheimer's is sneaky. Death is a thief in the night. Or day.

This group of people have such different personalities, actually different cultures, but one thing they all have is empathy for each other and it still brings to mind the 1624 message from John Donne. Are we any different these many years later. George, you have such heart, and everyone on this forum has such heart, even though all of us combined, our hearts are broken in many ways. For whom the bell tolls a poem (No man is an island) by John Donne No man is an island, Entire of itself. Each is a piece of the continent, A part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less. As well as if a promontory were. As well as if a manor of thine own Or of thine friend's were. Each man's death diminishes me, For I am involved in mankind. Therefore, send not to know For whom the bell tolls, It tolls for thee.

Firinne, there is no freedom. Billy had pulled the RV home in March of 2015. We were trying to get out of the house, lots of people wanted it. He was gone October 17th of 2015. All the bravado I had while he was ill, I could have carried his 6'2 or 3" anywhere in my arms, but my 5' could not wait to find a hole to crawl in away from that house, the RV, the plans we had made, because they were "our" plans, not mine. Oh, I wanted to do them, with him, just could not do them without him. I have tried to do everything different so it would not be a reminder. Good luck in your path. We all travel different ones, but they are the best we can do.

Allen and Katie, you have been part of this "family" ever since Butch made you part of it, and we are still here. I know we cannot heal all of your losses, but we are still here and Marty always has articles that we can gain some help from. I have quoted Rose Kennedy so much, but she lost so much and many, and I understood her saying the wound will never heal, but in time you develop scar tissue........and that can be ripped off too. I have no answers except we care for your family deeply.

I'm sorry Tony, I got no further than the pictures. Now I went up and read the whole thing. I went to grief group and there were no men. My Christian widow friend went with me the first time, really to introduce me. I left the first time feeling bad. So many were people that had lost children and I am at a loss on how to handle that and hope I never learn. I think like Gwen says (and I have not read all of hers yet either), but to me (and this is just to myself), if it makes me feel uncomfortable, I will avoid it.. This grief meeting I went to was one that has helped many people. But, if something makes me feel worse than when I began, I won't go back, and that includes doctors. Like she said, we all have different paths. I understand her path, and I am one with grandchildren and grown children and a sister that I have to help. All of us are different, but if it feels wrong, if it hurts me more, I won't do it. Some might find that wrong, but I have to do what is best for me, what I can handle. I think you are the best judge of what you can handle and what you can't. I started in the cancer survivors meetings and went one time. Knew I could not handle it. That was just me. I hurt bad enough, I don't want to hurt more. As an addendum, I would like to say I am not scared of groups. I did just fine in psychiatry group therapy, in fact, probably enjoyed it better than one on one therapy with doctor. And finishing reading, Gwen, that was a very good answer.

Tony, that is what I have problems with, pictures of Billy. I wonder if that ever will change. I would also like to listen to more music. I could not listen at first at all, I think I would have cried to that crazy "What Does the Fox Say" and slowly I added in The Eagles and The Band, but Billy hated Elvis, would not listen to him (the main musician from our teenage years), so I was positive I could listen to something he hated. Nope, cried and had to take the CD out. I can only listen to music when I am driving. I keep a roll of towels by my chair anyhow and this is about 27 months from the time he left. Good luck.

Please let us know how you do.. Your going to have to probably be still for 10 minutes or so, and during that time, write us and let you know how your doing. I was afraid to move to Arkansas 20 years ago because I am definitely a flatlander. And, might have had some close calls but sure did not have weather like you all have. Take it easy.

Firinne, I don't think that is what anyone is about on here. Grammar and spelling are insignificant when it comes to our feelings. You just pour your heart out I don't think any of us want to be here, for the reason we are here. We understand. All you are opening yourself up for is agreeing with your grief. I'm not young like most of you here and wanted to go with Billy. I think one thing we all can agree to disagree on, and it is no big problem to disagree with, some of us wanted to go first and others did not want their partner to suffer like we do. This is a group that lifts each other up and tries to pull the drowning to safety. Just pour your heart out. If the words are not spelled correctly, we don't care. If the wrong grammar is used, we don't care. This is just a place that "misery loves company" and that is all. We are sorry you have to be here, but you can say what you want to, however you want to say it. Marty will come on and she gives the best places to go online to find a little glimmer of daylight. I'm glad you found this place. I found it three days after my Billy left. I like to think he helped me because he had told me, "the one that is left must stay." I didn't want to stay.

A little mustard seed religion spoken here. When my grandmother was in her late 20's, she had had 7 children in 10 years. She had cancer, radiation, operation, instrument left inside her, sepsis, and they called all the family in. My grandfather, he cursed God with every curse word he knew and my mama, a wee little girl with all her sisters and brother just were shaking in the back seat because they knew they were going to be struck by lightening. Somehow or other, cursing at a God you don't believe in somehow shows that somehow you blame something. Anyhow, my grandmother outlived my grandfather by a bunch of years that she grieved every day and we would wake up in those feather beds hearing her singing in her high soprano voice "I come to the garden alone, while the dew is still on the roses, etc.", and she was fixing our breakfast (she and I neither one can/could cook worth a darn) and all us grandchildren who thought we needed to stay with her after our grandfather passed away, I think we were just a bother to her. I knew we were going to have that bitterweed butter. The cow would eat the bitterweed and the butter my grandmother churned tasted like bitterweeds. (I liked to churn.) The hospice book that was given to me by the hospice nurse at my mama's house. It said it was perfectly normal to blame God. Even if you don't believe in him, it is perfectly normal to do that. I watched a church service Sunday on TV about the purpose of life. He said something I had heard before. I was laying up in the hospital bed when my dad entered with his hat in his hand. He was angry, and no body got angry like my daddy, except me. (He had the congenital tremor also, and he would shake when he was mad). He came to the hospital door and he said "What have you done with the life we gave you." Did not wait for an answer (I had none anyhow.) I thought that was ironic because I always think of God like my dad, strict, quick to point out my faults. If Billy and I fussed, he wanted to know what I had done. So, there it was again. And, with my mustard seed faith, I talk to Jesus and Billy. Both at the same time. They are both good and understanding. My son has a religion I don't talk about with him. Something about our ancestors. We all go our own way at our own time.

Gypsy, I keep looking to the sky, talking to the sky and tell Billy I cannot do it alone, and then I go on and do it alone.

Your family has had their share of tragedy also Kay, and I am so sorry.

Gypsy, I am so sorry you have to join us. But, these words you spoke, I thought I would go first. My history is repeated so many times, I won't go into it. There is nothing wrong to say. Pour your heart out, get it off your chest and then the next day do it all over again. We were married 54 years and I wanted 54 more. I cannot say it gets totally better, but the waves stop beating as hard after awhile and then there is all of a sudden that one you cannot swim out of, but you do. I think I'm doing better and then a day like today when we lose one of our members, it just throws you back down again. But, you said you had family. I wanted to follow Billy, and I never considered my family. It took a couple of days and I knew I could not follow him. He had said, the one left must stay. Here I am. Today we are suffering through losing a member of the forum and his losses just were too many for him to bear. Please keep reading, you are among friends, and we are all different and all the same too. You might see daylight in the next year or so. I begrudged my family being around at first, I wanted to suffer by myself. You get used to them after awhile and know for some reason you are living. Some days I do, some days I don't. I'm just happy we have a place to come and cry when we want to.. A lot.

We loved your whole family Allen and Katie and there are simply no words that will help. We will keep you in our prayers. We will miss Butch so much, and thank you so much for including us in your family.

I know this seems impossible, but I have no words.

Don't scream, even into pillows, it just hurts your head and provides no relief.

Reading, days of remembrance, looking at pictures, music. This is past 25 months. My sister sent me a song on FB to listen to. It was Lukas Nelson and his band. I listened to that one song and it was so beautiful, I was just wondering why he had not been noticed in the last 10 years of his career. I don't know what genre his music would fit into. The two songs I heard were "easy listening" music. Of course, I had to read his history, and yes, I am old enough to remember a much younger Willie Nelson. I heard Willie (his father) but I heard Roger Miller also. I have Prime on Amazon and my son said I could get his music, and I could. I got in the bedroom and listened and could not get through the song. It was torture because if I ever discovered anything in music I knew Billy would appreciate, I always would bring it up on You Tube and we would listen. But, alone, I could not listen. I had a stupid crying jag. We come so far, but moments that are unguarded can take us back even further. People have diseases that will eventually kill them, we all know that, we witnessed it, we lived it. Myself, I know I could go at any time. I don't expect it, but it is a definite thing and yet I am not afraid (at least not all the time.) We learn to live with things. I guess grief is a disease that we just have to learn to live with. You really cannot escape it. I will get the CD and listen while I am driving, attention on the road. But, I had to skip a song on the CD by Air Supply. I hate these moments. My friend said now I could find myself. I did find me, and I don't like it.

Kay, I am so sorry. I have one sister and she needs my support constantly. I find my problems are small sometimes though and yes, I will use my mustard seed faith and pray for your family. Like with other members, so much loss, so much hurting. I am so sorry we all have to go through these trials in life. I know it is part of living. So many worries and the quotes say if you can do nothing about it, why worry. Just words. Empty words. I am so sorry, again.

I'm looking for it Kay. As you said, we seldom venture out of this section. It is a new road to travel, searching. Found it. I'm sorry for all the life suffering that has had to be done. My heart is with you.

There are no words anyhow Butch. In my case, it took someone needing me. I don't know your son Allen, but him sharing your condition with us shows how much he cares for you. I cannot imagine the pain you have to go through, but I know you have a little family that do not want to lose you. I didn't think I had a reason to live and then my granddaughter moved in with me. My sister, daughter and son depend on me. Our time will come in time, but your little family has lost too much. Somehow, being needed was something I begrudged at first, but now I see a reason to stay until I have to leave. You have lost so much, but you still have those that don't need to lose you.

I'm sorry girls. I just never was a housekeeper. Billy loaded the dishwasher in self-defense. I try to wash maybe 5 things in the sink each day just to cut down on them falling on the floor. My idol was Erma Bombeck and a neighbor. My neighbor said "Why clean the house, a tornado might come and just mess it all up." I certainly saw that possibility. Working nights I would pick up the Shreveport Journal (now gone for years) each night and read Erma Bombeck,, the fishing report by Glen Harris, and a columnist from Louisiana Tech (Wiley Hilburn) that wrote a homey type article, and he was chased often by "the black dog" so he and I felt the same. I think he was head of the journalism department at Tech and I felt kin to him and Erma. Both of them are just about as long gone as the newspaper. This is Erma's take on housework: • Housework is a treadmill from futility to oblivion with stop offs at tedium and counter productivity. • My theory on housework is, if the item doesn't multiply, smell, catch on fire or block the refrigerator door, let it be. No one cares. Why should you? And this truly was why Billy and I were never homesteaders.

Billy always said he loved it when I whistled a song, really an unconscious whistling, he said it was because he knew I was happy. I remember once during this tiring journey since he left I caught myself whistling and felt so guilty I have not done it since. I guess any outward showing of happiness brings pain also.

This is just the norm for me. And, I would be alarmed except that has been the norm for years. The concentration while reading, that seems to have only come on since Billy left.

I've read Nevada Barr also. That was one thing that has been so slow coming back, total concentration. You need it to read. I'm working on it hard. I honestly think the reason I read that C.J. Box book that Billy had half finished, I think somehow we read it together. I didn't even have his urn yet. Then I lost all concentration for months and still don't have it completely. One foot in front of the other.........one page at a time.

I have been trying to read some others up on the Wind River Reservation. Got hooked on Margaret Coel's mysteries of a Native American lawyer and her sleuthing along with the Catholic priest that served the reservation. Also Dana Stabenow writes a series about Kate Shugat, a Native American from Alaska that is a tough little female. Michael McGarrity writes a good book covering New Mexico. I think he is a retired peace officer. I did not like his last three epic novels, but Billy read all three. But all of these are very good writers. I have tried some of the others, but for books you don't want to put down, these authors can hardly be beat. Also J.J. Jance is a good writer. She writes about two people, Joann Brady a sheriff in Arizona and a man mostly from around Seattle, but she combined them in a good mystery. These are all good writers that if you like C.J. Box, I think you will love them too. I have a habit of reading as late as I can and if I cannot finish the book I will skip to the end of it. They are all good enough that you will go back to where you were and finish them.. I never knew this until later in life, but my mom used to do the same thing. Check them out. Don't think you will be disappointed in any of them. Right now I am trying to read "Testimony" by Robbie Robertson of the group "The Band" and probably the last one still standing. Not enjoying it as much as my mysteries though.