Strange Anger

[Margm]

No quotes.  I have just finished going through my books and the ones I will save, the ones I will throw away.  I thought this part would be hard but instead it brought on anger.  I miss Billy so much and we have had a lot of health problems.  We kept these Arkansas back roads walked very often, for a long time it was a regular thing but when we started homeschooling our granddaughter, not so much.

I won't bore you with the titles.  I don't know how many books there were.  I did remove the slips of paper as bookmarks with his exercise regimes marked on the bookmarks, the number of "squats" and all the other terminology regarding health management.  I told you in August he was riding the elliptical 30 minutes at a time.  I have ridden it 30 minutes before when I was dieting and exercising about four years ago.  You quit and riding that sucker five minutes is tough.  But, he was riding it 30 minutes at a time.  He was a dying man.  Just a few weeks from death.  He had cancer all over him.

And the health books.  The health books with the diets set out, not for losing weight, but for getting healthy.  We walked all over these hills using our trekking sticks.  All this health stuff but he could not give up the poison that I am sure helped lead to his death.  I know he wanted to.  

And my mother has gone into kidney failure and it is a matter of moments, hours, days.  My daughter is down there.  I am still clearing out up here.  One night when I kept her I saw her face in the death mask Billy's was in and I left hysterical.  I know I am going to feel guilt about this.  My sister took care of my mother.  I never did and I know I will suffer for not liking my mama.  I loved her.  Like Billy told me one time, he loved me but he did not like me.  But you have to love your mother, she is your mother.  I don't understand this Alzheiimer's.  Pat Summitt passed in a short time.  I think my mama has had it her whole life.  It is a very angry, mean disease.  

Tonight I am hurting.  Tonight we all are hurting.  But tonight, I am angry.  The health books were all thrown away.

[Clematis]

I've been having some trouble with my dad's books too, Marg. He had all these health books. I left them alone in the first pass. In the next pass all the health books left. If I wanted information like that, I'd look it up on the internet. I keep finding things that make me cry, touch my heart, or just make me wonder what he was thinking. I found a little collection of books my mother had on hand to read to visiting grand babies. They were about flowers and kitties and bunnies and beautifully illustrated; I kept them. I found a mug with a picture of my mother holding one of those grand babies that she was so much more thrilled with she had been with her own children. I didn't think a thrift store would want a mug with my mother's picture on it, I sure didn't want it, but I couldn't make myself put it in the trash. I kept asking people to please "make it go away and never come back". Today-the third day-it finally left the house.

[TerriL]

Dealing with the "personal effects" has always been the roughest part for me in the aftermath. It's so hard for me to let go because it's the only physical part of them I have left. I still have all of Paul's vitamins, supplements and blood pressure medication sitting right where he left it in the kitchen. I haven't touched any of his stuff. The last towel he dried himself off with over eight months ago, still hangs over the shower door. I remove it when I shower and then place it back on the frame when I'm done. Paul and I both had health issues the last few years, but we were working hard to regain our health and doing very well (or at least we thought so). I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but one week before he had the strokes, Paul and I were actually congratulating ourselves for how far we had come in just one year. We were discussing the possibility of being well enough to begin riding our bikes in parks and the beach again, like we had n the past, before our joint issues reared their ugly heads. Paul and I planned to go to the bike store to buy a new one for me, since my "post illness" body now needs a more upright position and coaster brakes. And then, that was it. Before we even went to the bike store, he was gone. Every cool, sunny day we had this past winter made me think of how we would have been riding our bikes, laughing, having fun and stopping for something to eat at our favorite cafe after the ride. We went through hell the few years before, in pain all over, not knowing what was happening to our bodies, we were doing what the doctor advised us to do and what is our reward? Paul was unfairly struck down without warning and it feels as if my life was taken from me at the same time. It's weird, but some days, I think of myself as the "Spirit of Christmases Past" or something like that. I'm walking around and appear to be a functioning, living being, but if you look really hard, you realize you can see right through me. The me that "was" is no longer in there. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to get her back and that scares me. 

[kayc]

Marg, (((hugs)))  I have no words, just lots of heart for you.

Laura, Others may not want the mug, but you don't want it either so why not let it go, unless that is what you meant by the third day it finally left the house.

Gosh I know what you ladies mean about your moms...my mom was not an easy (okay, that is putting it mildly) person to be around or have in our lives.  I didn't know if I loved her or could love her, but by the time she got into her advanced dementia stages and it softened her, I realized I did love her.  I didn't always like her, she wasn't always so likable, but I did love her and could see it once I didn't have to reckon with her force so much.  She was always just "so much" to deal with!

Laura, I can hear your pain when you talk about your mom.  I hope you'll get some counseling someday so you can let go of it...I know it's painful to carry.  It's hard when we have to deal with mothers who weren't very good at being mothers.

[Clematis]

Yes, a friend said she would get rid of it for me. I had a lot of counseling -years of counseling about my mother. More than anything it was a relief when she died because she couldn't do any further damage. Unfortunately, I have now realized that she trained my narcissistic sisters, one of whom has two narcissistic daughters of her own. Fortunately they are on the other side of the country. Also, I'm not sure it's any comfort, but my sisters are reticent about tangling with me, because they never win (because they take a position that is mean and dishonest), and I am fearless in getting in their face and speaking what I see as the truth. I am not mean or abusive to them, but I they just don't get anywhere from bullying me, even as a team. It would be easier to let go of my mother if her legacy was not continuing through my sisters...It is hard to get over what won't go away.

I am hoping that at least one of my sisters will come back to me after the estate is settled-the older one who is an artist. Unfortunately, while I believed helping her by buying her art and saving her house was a favor, it made her resent me. My grief counselor told me this makes some sense because it would make her feel inadequate to have her sister-her younger sister-have to help her. Therefore she resents me. It makes sense, but it scares me. This sister is probably going to keep needing help. What am I supposed to do-watch her suffer when I could help her?

[kayc]

What you are saying is what I also have learned in my lifetime of dealing with my mom, much of which was from "Toxic Parents", "Adult Children of Alcoholics", an "Emotional Blackmail"...each of these books helped me in learning to deal with others, particularly my mother, in setting boundaries and not letting her continue getting to/at me.  I felt like I took my life back when I learned these tools, if you will.  It is setting a boundary and letting THEM have the consequence of their own decisions rather than arguing, caving in, being controlled & hurt, etc.  What a difference!

One time I was dealing with one of my kids (we were eating out with my mom along) and my mom interfered, trying to undermine my parental authority.  I called her on it, I nicely but firmly told her she didn't like it when her mom intervened in her disciplining her children and I didn't like it any better.  She stormed out and didn't see/speak to me for a year.  I chose to enjoy the peacefulness of the year rather than let her get to me.  I suppose she wanted me to run after her, beg, cajole, but I didn't.  I let her own her own consequences of cutting off her nose to spite her face.  

[Margm]

I'm sorry folks, it seems like we are hit by a flood, then earthquake, now Tornado Kelli.  Kelli goes into manic anger episodes and she spent the whole night writing me hate mail.  She will be spent and sleep today.  She did this right before Billy died also and while he was sick he was putting up with her manic anger.  I know he did not want to  go but putting up with Kelli's manic anger is something we have gotten guardianship twice, she would take her meds and daughter went back with her.  My granddaughter, and all of us, have suffered so much mental cruelty from this girl and yet when it is your child, you forgive and forget.  My granddaughter is being treated for social anxiety and it is from my daughter's many manic anger episodes.  She has never physically hurt her.  But the mental anguish to all of us is only healed by death, and Billy slipped away from it.  I have someone to buy the house.  I have to get all papers ready and I am really a nervous wreck, but I have to pull myself together, I have to do this right now.

[brat#2]

Marg, as Kay said no words, just know my heart is with you.

Terri - It will almost a year since Dale died and the only I have touch, moved or given away of his was all his medication.  I couldn't stand to look at it, did that right away.  Everything and I mean everything else is exactly where he left it, so you are not alone in that department.  Strangely it gives me some comfort to see his things where he put them.  I wish I could tell you how we are suppose to get "ourselves" back, but I have the same feelings, I'm not me anymore and don't know how to find me.  Hugs to us all

Joyce

 

[mittam99]

27 minutes ago, Marg M said:

I'm sorry folks, it seems like we are hit by a flood, then earthquake, now Tornado Kelli.  Kelli goes into manic anger episodes and she spent the whole night writing me hate mail.  She will be spent and sleep today.  She did this right before Billy died also and while he was sick he was putting up with her manic anger.  I know he did not want to  go but putting up with Kelli's manic anger is something we have gotten guardianship twice, she would take her meds and daughter went back with her.  My granddaughter, and all of us, have suffered so much mental cruelty from this girl and yet when it is your child, you forgive and forget.  

Marg, my heart goes out to you. It's hard enough to have lost the love of your life but the additional drama that you are dealing with is staggering.

I hope I'm not speaking out of turn regarding Kelli. I know you said you forgive and forget and you put up with her antics but it seems to me she is a toxic individual who needs serious help. At a certain point, if everyone in your family is being impacted in a negative way, something needs to change. I don't know all the particulars but it saddens me that someone as good-hearted as you (and dealing with deep grief) is being tormented by her own daughter.

Hugs and prayers that things get better.

[kayc]

Marg,

I am sorry for all you are going through, it is too much.  I received a whole lot of toxins from my mom, she wasn't bipolar (I know because she was never "up") but she had a lot of personality disorders, paranoia, schizoid, narcissistic, given to histrionics, etc.  She was the most difficult and toxic person I've ever met and I got her for a mom.  I learned a lot in my lifetime of dealing with her, mainly to set boundaries and to limit myself as to how much I felt I could handle, protect my kids from her, and it might change from time to time depending on how she was being.  I loved her. I suppose we default love to our parents and kids but that doesn't necessarily mean it's all smooth riding.  There were times I had to take breaks from her for my own peace of mind.  I had to get firm with her.  It wasn't always easy because she was a person who was out of control and she never took meds until she was in the dementia care facility.  If a doctor ever said something she didn't like, she wouldn't go to him/her again.  Mostly they tried to get her out of the door so they didn't have to deal with her.  It was us kids that suffered mostly, but some of it was borne by her church, neighbors, anyone who met her.  

I just want to tell you that you have my permission to block your daughter from your life when she's not taking her medicines.  Not that you need my permission, just giving it anyway.   That wouldn't make you a bad mom or a bad person.  That would just mean you were cognizant of her toxicity and your limitations and your knowledge of all you have on your plate and your need to protect and care for yourself first and foremost.  I had to learn that unless I took care of myself first, I would be no good to anyone else.  So true!  Everyone in your family seems to depend on you and that's a whole lot to bear when you are grieving your husband and your mother (yes, we grieve when they have dementia, even if our relationship wasn't perfect, perhaps all the MORE when our relationship wasn't perfect), let alone sorting through a lifetime of belongings and selling your house!

All that advice is probably worth the price you paid for it (free), but mostly I want you to know I love you and think you are tremendous and very strong, but it's okay to be weak too.  

I'm so glad you have a buyer already!!

[Margm]

But, if I didn't mention it, barring complications the first people that looked at the house, before the realtor got it want it through a lawyer in town.  I know her and trust her, but I do not have business sense at all.  Neither did Billy though, but he sure could look more intelligent than I can.  

[kayc]

Marg,

My son sold his place privately, and bought his next place privately, but he also had realtor friends he turned to for advice/guidance, and did a lot of research on his own on line.  I already know I don't know beans about buying/selling a house, so would probably go through a realtor, even though it costs thousands of dollars, in a way, they earn it.  I used to work for a real estate office a million years ago and I proofed all of the deals (went over them, made sure there were no errors) but that was too long ago and things have changed even if I did have a memory.

My recent experience with contractors bears out the fact that I don't know anything!

[Margm]

I don't know any thing.  Even where the papers are.  My oldest granddaughter came in and spent a few weeks and "cleaned up things" and I could not find last years income taxes and have not found lending company's contracts yet.  Am looking.

[Margm]

I've lost my husband, I will soon lose my mother, my sister is in not a very good shape after taking care of Mama, my son will be here Friday to help me.  My daughter, she is alive and we have always forgiven the ugliness, and some of it was intolerable and should never have been tolerated, so sorry afterwards.  She let me know today that she wished I had gone first.  I told her that I did too.  I have always felt she would be happier with me being dead from a long time ago.  My first psychiatrist, back in about 1996, I asked her when I could get off antidepressants, and she told me when I got rid of my daughter.  So, this is nothing new.  She is very toxic.  She is the typical borderline personality person that the book was written about "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me."  

I sometimes think she went into this stone cold sober and came out like the guy in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest."  But, at least he was silent.  She spent the whole night writing me hate mail on FB Messenger.  Billy always told me not to read it.  I read some, enough to know there is no change in her.  And, when it all comes down to it, it has always been my fault.  Everything that happened.  And I guess I did bear her, so I guess it was my fault.  I wish her no harm, only wanted happiness.  She loves me so much she cannot stand that I love other people.  She was supposed to be the only one.

[Margm]

2 hours ago, kayc said:

I just want to tell you that you have my permission to block your daughter from your life when she's not taking her medicines.  

Kay, I think she might be a whole different person without medications.  And, this is from someone who will not stop Xanax.  She takes so much medication that you do not know where the crazy began and the insane ended.  Terrible to talk about someone like that.  I do love her.  Billy always said there was nothing but two ways with her.  You had to love her or you had to hate her.  We loved her because she was ours.  She did have nice periods.

My son made the analogy of a beautiful snake that you reach down to pet and you get bitten.  Dying you look at the snake and said I just wanted to pet you, the snake looks at you and says "I'm a snake you idiot."  There were a few more words thrown in the reality one.

[Margm]

3 hours ago, kayc said:

 I let her own her own consequences of cutting off her nose to spite her face.  

Right now I just want to protect my granddaughter, which by law I do not know where I am.  She scares my granddaughter and me so much, I just don't know what to say.  I have seen Bri go back with her just because she thought she had to only to more mental abuse.

[kevin]

Marg, went through the Alzheimer journey twice and I find it the worst sentence anyone can be given....Not only on themselves but on there caregivers and Children.....My Wife would have lucid moments(good days) and would ask why did this happen to her, I had no answer but reassured her I would always be by her side.... That is a tough question,and hopefully in short years away ,our DNA will hold the secret. But until something changes, these Brain related diseases(Alzheimers,Parkinsons, Dementia's etc) are the cruelest  and take their toll on all of us.....

[Margm]

When I worked for the neurology dept. at the medical school I already had my tremor.  My doctors all assured me it was congenital, and sure enough, my dad's had just advanced to a hard to write kind of tremor.  He still led singing every morning and night at the Baptist Church.  But, the rise and fall of the song book hid a tremor.  My grandfather and his brother had both died with Parkinson's, long before anything was known.  It affected my grandfather's mind and at age 56 he was put in the state hospital..  He had chased my aunt up into the field with a knife.  (She always was a bitch, but I guess this was not the thing to do.).  Daddy, as the oldest and the sheriff took him to the asylum.  Killed my dad for him to ask "Elvie, where are you taking me?" (He died of pneumonia two weeks after admission). The man had always been cold, and had beat daddy when he was 17 for leaving a gate open.  Daddy just took it, that was the way he was raised.  My doctors said that the two brothers had probably had a mild case of encephalitis together and no one thought then that parkinson's was hereditary.  I retired in 1997.  That was the  year they found out that there were markers that marked it as hereditary.  My head does not shake, but my chin does when excited or anxious (often).  The Xanax stops it.  So yes, parkinsonism is one of the dreaded diseases also.

I'm sorry Kevin that you had to go through this.  My mom has had it for so long it makes me think it might be some other demyelinating disease of the nerve tissues, or even of her brain itself.  Doc supposedly said it was Alzheimer's though.  

So many of you have gone through so much.  I am sorry.

[KarenK]

Marg,

Just my opinion, but it might be best to have a realtor involved in the sale of your house. I sold my cabin back in 2014 using a realtor. Lots of forms to sign, inspections to be done, etc. Way too complicated and stressful on top of everything else. Well worth the small commission I paid.

[Clematis]

8 hours ago, kayc said:

... I chose to enjoy the peacefulness of the year rather than let her get to me.  I suppose she wanted me to run after her, beg, cajole, but I didn't.  I let her own her own consequences of cutting off her nose to spite her face.  

Yeah Kay, I think you are right; it is very similar how our mothers were, yours and mine. And my sisters are doing the sane thing. They have both "stormed out" so to speak while I am settling the estate and are not speaking to me. It is like they have also died, except they haven't and I have to keep reminding myself to not call them, especially my older sister, with whom I used to be very close. Going through both condos, but especially mine, I come across things she made, wrote, and gave me. It gives me the same poignant feelings as coming across things that were my dad's or that he gave me, or that are in his handwriting. She feels just as gone, and I'll say to my friend helping me, "Oh, look-this is from my sister, back in the days when she used to like me."  It's probably a good thing, because when we talk we have nothing but disagreements. She feels victimized by my having bought her art, getting my dad to give her money to keep her in a heated house with groceries, and ultimately keeping her house from foreclosing. She comes up with the craziest things to find fault with me on, and gets frustrated because she can't win an argument with me. Her style is to get in a few quick jabs and then run like hell. Mine is to be direct, stand on my own two feet and try to come to an understanding and resolution. We  may have come from the same family, but I spent decades in psychotherapy and she spent those same years trying to resolve the same issues with wine. She is like a child-maybe early adolescent...

[Clematis]

52 minutes ago, KarenK said:

Marg,

Just my opinion, but it might be best to have a realtor involved in the sale of your house. I sold my cabin back in 2014 using a realtor. Lots of forms to sign, inspections to be done, etc. Way too complicated and stressful on top of everything else. Well worth the small commission I paid.

Marg, I did this as well in 2005...sold the house to a close but kinda neurotic friend. No, more than neurotic. I asked a realtor I was friendly with to do the paperwork and she said she'd do it for $2000. I told her we'd better make it $3000, because of the neurotic factor. I didn't know what would happen, but thought this friend was likely to pull some kind of stunt that would make $2000 seem inadequate. She knew my friend, thought about it, and said, "Yeah-I think you're right." Sure enough there was something, but it all worked out.

I think there are areas that involve complex law where you really do need a specialized professional, because ordinary people don't know what they are doing. My dad was an attorney, and I came across an enormous fat briefcase case of materials designed to show a lay person how to set up a trust, write a will, set up an estate that wouldn't have to go through probate, etc. Based on the date the kit was made, he still had all his marbles then-and he was an attorney himself. I could see the wheels turning in his head as I looked at this kit. He thought he could do it, the than as he rethought it, considered that he specialized in patent law, particularly in foreign patent law as related to chemicals. He hired an attorney who specialized in wills, trusts, and estate law. When he came out to AZ and needed more assistance with his estate planning I found him an attorney here with the same specialty and he was on it like a duck on a June bug. I would be a LOT more worried about my sisters trying to pull something if his affairs hadn't been set up properly.

[Margm]

I don't know if I am doing right or not.  Probably best to go with a realtor, but I do trust this lawyer.  If things do  not go right, I will have to list.  Right now I've got to get to Louisiana to help my sister, my granddaughter, and "save the world."  I am afraid my sister is drinking again.  I know this shows how low I have become, but if I had to stay with my mom 24/7, I would drink.  It would kill me, but some fates are worse than death.  I realize I cannot save the world, but I only hope there is still time for my granddaughter to have a happy life.  She is too young to be trampled upon.  Sometimes we handle life all wrong and we have to suffer the consequences.  I do not like to see the innocent suffer.  I do not like to see anyone suffer, but certainly someone who has not lived yet.  We all eventually suffer the consequences of our actions, but let the guilty suffer.  But, who died and made me God.  

[kayc]

Good luck with it Marg.  The attorney will probably have a realtor do the paperwork anyway.   

[Clematis]

7 minutes ago, Marg M said:

I don't know if I am doing right or not.  Probably best to go with a realtor, but I do trust this lawyer. 

You may be right...I think that varies from state to state. I have only done real estate transactions in AZ and the realtor does all the work and the closing is done at a title company, which does all the final paperwork and filing of it. Nevertheless, I once attended a closing in PA with my sister, and it was held at an attorney's office-they were doing the final paperwork and the filing of it. This is in Mississippi? Anyway, lawyers know the law and you may be doing it perfectly for where you are!

[kayc]

Good point, I've only dealt with Oregon, probably every state is different.